Wednesday, October 12, 2011



Anti-Zionism and antisemitism are two different concepts. Too often, those who defend Israel and its policies will cry "Racism" and "Antisemitism" when their beliefs are challenged.

People with higher order thinking will understand the difference. We must try to reduce emotionality when discussing this crucial political threat.

Israelis may say, "Who is the U.S. to criticize us about colonialism and expansionism when they did the same against Native Americans?" Good question. 
We were wrong. We, as a nation, also committed genocide. We, therefore, know whereof we speak. Many of us feel guilty and regretful about this time in US history.

However, two wrongs do not make it right!

It is understandable that, after the holocaust, Jews would do everything in their power never again to let such monstrous events happen to them. But at any cost? "The Nazis did it to us; we will do it to the Palestinians" attitude demonstrates a very low-level morality, in my opinion. 

The attitude stems from the "eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth" law in Judaism. I love the quote in "Fiddler on the Roof" when Tevia says, "Then what? We all end up blind and toothless?!"


Dear Jewish people, we know, we know; we have heard about it, read about it, watched movies about it (far disproportionate to other crimes of genocide). We see the power and influence you have created and continue to wield.
It is not difficult to understand your anger, your pain, and your resolve to survive. However, surviving at all costs, perhaps at the cost of world peace (?!) may accomplish the ultimate decimation of Israel--now that's ironic! That is a type of wounded insanity. Your solutions will only benefit the very politically connected and rich few.
Israel must stop committing crimes they have accused others of perpetrating against them. They must heal their emotional wounds; they must learn to forgive. (Forgiveness is not only a Christian concept!) Unless they do, Israel's people will continue to support the aberrant policies of Zionism that will lead the world to war--again!

Perhaps many Israelis are already blind, taking revenge and committing to whatever it takes to increase Israel's strength and security. 

It is very difficult for us to understand, much less condone, the reasons why they would create, knowingly and willingly, this potential for world destruction! It seems like a sickness: Self-sabotage? Extreme narcissism? Self-hatred? Sociopathy?

Some Jews are aware of the dangers Israel is causing;  however, others seem ignorant of them and have tunnel vision about their "rightful" place in the world. 

They need to stop acting like victims, lashing out, trying to control others, and thereby becoming as evil as those who perpetrated against them. 

The Israeli issue is not really about the past. Unfortunately, however, I believe that politicians and others will continue to take advantage of peoples' emotions to harness and keep support for the Zionist agenda.

We, the other citizens of the world, need to withdraw support from this insane Zionist scheme. We need more rational, levelheaded people to tackle these issues and prevent ultimate disaster.


ranfuchs said...

Actually this time, I disagree with you on many things. So let’s start with what I do agree. Anti-Zionism and anti-Semitism is not the same. It’s legitimate to criticize Israel. However, there is also a lot of anti-Semitism hidden as anti-Zionism.
The conflict is emotional, it is hot, and it cannot be based on logic. People are not logical. But you did not mention that the Arabs were just as illogical.
There is also a big difference between, between disagreeing with Israel politics, and disagreeing with Israel’s right to exist. And unless you are Kamikaze of shihadist surviving is at all cost. Because any way you look at it, the day Israel will put down it’s army, it will be annihilated.
Israel has done many wrongs, and yet, since 1920s it has agreed to two country solution. It agreed again in 1948, and it still did not work. It gave Gaza independence, and got rockets fired back. So you can ask Israel for a great deal of sacrifice, but you cannot ask for suicide. But you do.
You could ask the Palestinians for high level thinking and to agree to publically recognize Israel right to exist as a Jewish state, and accept the two-state solution, as a permanent solution. But you do not ask for that.

PSACHNO said...

Hey, thanks for your comments!

I agree antisemitism is often cloaked as anti-Zionism, as anti-Zionism is often mislabeled antisemitism.

I do agree that emotions blind both these peoples--it is difficult for logic to prevail. But not impossible.

What also blinds them are their respective religious ideologies. Not likely that is going to change in the near future.

In no way have I intimated that the Palestinians are without fault or discussed what the Palestinians should do. That was not the subject of my blog. That is fodder for another blog!

Why should the Palestinians make a deal with the intruders, the aggressors? Israelis have proven that they cannot be trusted (as have the Palestinians, but with more justified cause).

Palestinians do not want to be wiped out either! But they already have been almost eradicated from Palestine.

Many are longing to go back to the home of their ancestors and unite with their families.

Both sides have committed mistakes. No doubt. However, the greater crime is on Israel's shoulders, having taken control of others' lands and lives. They are arrogant and short-sighted, in my opinion.

So what did the Israelis do when the Palestinians stood firm on not accepting an Israeli state? They provocated them by taking more land! They put on tighter controls; took away more rights. Not too smart.

The Israelis are mostly to blame for the escalation of hostilities.

Sure, it would be great if both peoples could come to some agreement; however, as long as this high level of hatred and lack of trust exists between them, nothing will be resolved. It will only get worse. It's just a matter of time.

Why does Israel have the right to exist as a state? Because thousands of years ago, they lived there? Using that logic, we would have to remap the entire world!

Of course, they will not give up their Zionist regime; and the Arabs will also not give into Israeli control.

I did not say that the Israelis should commit suicide. (I really think you go too far.) However, they are doing a good job of creating a situation of self- extinction.

I do believe the Jews have a right to exist, as do the Palestinians. But I'm sure the Israelis do NOT have a right to take over a foreign land in order to exist.

The US is highly culpable in creating this mess. Perhaps we should put pressure to bear on Israel. Maybe a slow withdrawal of Jews from Palestine is a solution. Perhaps in doing so the Arab world will calm their anger against us and become less of a threat.

Got any better ideas than agreeing to separate states, seeing as the possibility of that scenario is getting less and less likely?

Kevin Goodman said...

Israel has a de jure right to exist. This right is not based on millennia old cultural narrative but on the fact that Israel is very real.

The Jewish colonization of the area is well over a hundred years old now. Many Jews immigrated to escape anti-Jewish hostilities in Europe during the late eighteen and early nineteen hundreds. In many cases, European countries gladly assisted their departure. Even Nazi Germany shipped Jews to Jerusalem before they took up a policy of extermination.

One can imagine that Jewish people took to the cultural narrative of a homeland because of a psychological longing for a place where they would no longer be second-class citizens. In addition, you have to remember that the first major modern Jewish populations in the land of Israel were refugees from Europe.

With any regards, the Jewish people occupied the area and made a bid to control the land and claim statehood. Flash-forward 65 years and you have a Jewish population that has become native to the land and knows no other place as home. Despite what occurred for this to have happened the people who are there now have a right to defend their homes, their way of life, etc. Israel is and therefore Israel has a right to exist.

I think narrowing the conflict between Palestinians and Israelis is limiting to what is really going on. It is Islam against the Jewish state—and it’s understandable that Iranians, Syrians, and Egyptians support hostilities against Israel (from a historic perspective). It is not just about supporting the disadvantaged Palestinians it is about removing something perceived as unholy from a place made sacred by Mohamed.

I do not believe the people of the region can be at peace with Israel short of the Jewish people packing up and leaving or otherwise exterminated (both are unreasonable, if not impossible).

Despite fundamentalist Judaism, there is a very liberal population living in Israel—you can be a cultural Jew, consider yourself atheist, and blend in just fine. This is much harder to find in Islam. You can point out that Arab emotion has a legitimate basis--If the Arabs had won the war, things would have been different—but they did not and generations of Israelis have now established themselves. I believe the region has to accept Israel before the Palestinian situation can truly improve.

Israel is not going to lose the backing of the United States, especially after Islamic fundamentalism brought down the word trade towers. That event made Israel extremely important to the United States and insured Israel’s military supremacy in the region for years to come (even though we try to keep them out of our wars—to keep from inciting others more than is already the case--they are on call for the very worse of imaginable scenarios).

PSACHNO said...

Kevin, thank you for contributing your points of view. I think many of your assertions are correct.

On these points, I think we agree:
(1) Israel has a legal right to exist.
(2) Issues of millennia in the past do not enter into the question of the right for Israel to exist.
(3) On your historical recounting of Jewish immigration.
(4) The psychology of a people longing for a place where they will not be persecuted.
(5) There is a larger picture of the clash of ideologies, as I already mentioned—Islam vs Jewish.
(6) Arabs want to remove what they perceive as unholy from Israel.
(7) There can be no peace short of extermination or removal of Jews from Israel.
(8) Extermination is wholly out of the question.
(9) Israel includes a variety of beliefs within the culture.
(10) Arabs have a legitimate basis for wanting to live in Palestine and have the Palestinians return to their homeland.
(11) If the Arabs had won, things would be different and this clash would not exist.
(12) Israel is probably not going to lose the backing of the USA.
(13) If Islamic Fundamentalists had brought down the towers, that would incite the US gov’t and people to strongly support Israel.
(14) Israel and the US are on call for the worst of hostile scenarios.
(15) Jews have suffered discrimination resulting in their expulsion and willing emigration to Israel.
(16) Much of the present population has been living in Israel for most of their lives.
Seems we really agree on many points (many of which I have already stated). However, there are several crucial points I will attempt to define on which we do not seem to agree:
(1) Israel does NOT have a de jure right to exist within its present boundaries. Legally, only the boundaries of 1948 have been accepted by the UN. The support of the US does not make it legal.
(2) Most Jews who immigrated to Israel from Europe in the early years were Ashkenazi Jews. Ashkenazi Jews are not Semitic. That is, they adopted the Jewish religion from Eastern Europe but are not racially Jewish. This fact lessens any argument for going back to the “homeland”. To the contrary, Palestinians are rightfully longing for THEIR homeland and the wounds are much fresher.
(3) Whether the Arabs are not liberal in tolerating differences among themselves and the Jews are, has no bearing on the legal right for Israel to create the Palestinian expulsion.
(4) Whether you agree with Islamic beliefs or not, that is not enough reason to support a Jewish invasion and state, and the genocide of Palestinians.
(5) Arabs losing the war does not give Israel the legal, ethical or moral right to take over their country (especially when, without the help of the US, they would have lost the war). Using the same logic we can say, “If the Arabs now win a war over Israel, they are within their rights to take over the country.” (Actually, in a way that makes more sense, considering they would only be taking back what was theirs to begin with!)


PSACHNO said...

(continued from above...)

(6) Arab fundamentalists did NOT bring down the towers. There is overwhelming evidence to show that this was a planned event (not by Arabs—probably the Mossad with the help of the US?) and the towers were ultimately brought down by explosives. Many experts in the field have testified to this fact.
Creating popular support through planned destruction is an old tactic. Hitler used it when he burned the Reichstag. Roosevelt used it when he had prior knowledge of the attack on Pearl Harbor. Truman used it when he already knew the Japanese emperor was going to submit, but wanting to try out the US’s “new toy”, bombed not one, but two Japanese cities.
If you think these scenarios are far-fetched and untrue, I can give you a host of sites that may persuade you otherwise! Conspiracy? Yes, but by governments, not by people theorizing reasons without evidence.
(7) There can only be a few reasons why hostilities would stop; (A) the gradual expulsion of current inhabitants of Israel; (B) the cessation of hostilities on one or either side (highly unlikely); and (C) the agreement on both sides for two states to exist side by side. The third reason is also highly unlikely unless the borders are changed and the land is divided more or less equally, including desirable land. This last scenario is also highly unlikely, considering Israeli stubbornness.
The gradual expulsion of Israelis seems fairer and doable, but they will not agree to this!
(8) This conflict was created by people who wanted to create world war to subjugate the planet under the rule of one government. I know, it sounds outrageous, but not if you know the background information. People who realize these machinations are growing in numbers.
(9) The Jews had a choice to take a portion of land in Australia before they set up the Israeli state, but they refused. Why? Why put themselves in the middle of the Arab world? This is one of the most stupid moves in history! Israel complains of being surrounded by Arabs. What did they expect? It is their own fault.
(10) The present situation in Israel/Palestine appears to be one without solution. It feels hopeless. However, if we give up on finding a solution, on talking about it, there truly will be NO HOPE, not only for this part of the world, but for ALL the world!
(11) Suppose the US were invaded by Arabs and they took, for instance, Florida. What do you think the US would do? Would they agree that, because they lost the war or conceded to the Arabs for some reason, they had a right to stay? Even years later after 2 generations had passed?
What do you think the US would do? Give up?
If Arabs were exterminating US citizens, would the US stand by without doing anything to save its citizens or accept, in any way, this scenario?
Yes, I know, highly unlikely it will ever happen—but just if—try to imagine it, and you will know in your heart who is morally and ethically in the right. Sadly, so many of us have not really evolved beyond the philosophy, “Might makes right.”
In contrast, let’s review the history of Cyprus. In 1974, Turkey invaded the best portion of Cyprus, a Greek-Cypriot state. To me, this is quite recent. Almost no country in the world acknowledges the Turkish-Cypriot state. Turks killed many people, many of whom are still “missing”. Many families still grieve their loss, not able to find closure.
Why doesn’t the US involve itself in this conflict? Not enough Turkish politicians with power in the US? Not enough to gain, strategically?
I think the Cyprus conflict demonstrates in many ways the hypocrisy of the US and the invalidity of their reasons for supporting an illegal state. Something to think about...

Kevin Goodman said...

I can appreciate your compassion for wanting to help Palestinians. I guess I'm just skeptical because you appear very radical about it. Go back far enough and no nation is legitimate. I never meant to make a counter argument but to put some context and balance to it.

PSACHNO said...

Hey, Kevin, thanks for your comment!

I agree with you on your logic of there being no-legitimate countries. Good point.

No worries. I just wanted to clarify our agreements and disagreements. And you did bring balance.

What about my comments did you find radical?